SF Signal: Foundation: The Movie

Foundation: The Movie

Foundation Moves Ahead
Jeff Vintar, who recently wrote the big-screen adaptation of Isaac Asimov's I, Robot, has been brought on to complete the script for another Asimov work, Foundation, according to a report on the Cinescape Web site. An inside source told the site that the epic SF trilogy will most likely be split into two films, tentatively entitled Foundation and Second Foundation.

Thanks for the dig, Rich. I was beginning to think you weren't as loud as your wardrobe.

Back in '98 (the 90's!), I set a goal to read all of Asimov's Foundation and Robot (and related) books before 2000. At the time, the tally was:

31 Robot Novels and SS

3 Empire Novels

11 Foundation Novels

This included such lame non-Asimov offerings as the Robot City and Robots and Aliens series (which I wound up mostly speed read). But it also inlcluded some semi-decent stuff like Roger MacBride Allens Robot series (Caliban, Inferno and Utopia). I thought the "Second Foundation Trilogy (Foundation's Fear by Gregory Benford, Foundation and Chaos by Greag Bear and Foundation's Triumph by David Brin were, in order: Lame/OK/Good.

But the original series was best. Asimov had never planned to connect the Robot stories with the Foundation stories until some of both were already published. He makes no bones about potential inaccuracies in the later stuff due to already-published stories. I never read them with a critical eye, so I don't recall any flubs.

I do remember enjoying Asimov's original Robot short stories (The Calvin. Powell and Donovan years). There is a book club edition of The Complete Robot Stories that has all of Asimov's robot stories (there's lots more than is in I, Robot, which, coiincidentally, is an upcoming Will Smith movie). The only one missing from that collection is his last robot story, and that is included in Asomov's Robot Dreams collection.

Posted by John on Wednesday October 15, 2003 at 7:56 AM

Well, I read the Robot series and the Foundation series. I guess I missed the books that tried to tie them together. But I never tried the John approach of trying to read every related book from other authors . . . whew! And not to sound picayune, but the comment was "interesting items" not total items posted. But it is interesting that you keep count . . . . I guess I have to stop posting under pseudonyms so that I get "credit".

Posted by Rich on Wednesday October 15, 2003 at 9:29 AM

I think that the Four SPACER novels, viz, The Caves of Steel, The **ked Sun (**=Na), Robots of dawn and Robots and Empire ties in rather neatly with The whole foundation and second foundation series. For those who haven't read them in order, i recommend the following list. I went through all of them recently and enjoyed them immensely.

EARTH AND THE SPACERS
---------------------
*The Caves of Steel
*The Naked Sun
*Robots of dawn
*Robots and Empire

EXPANSION
------------
The Stars Like Dust (the empire novels)

TRANTOR, PRE-UNIFICATION
------------------------
The Currents of Space (The Empire Novels)
Pebble In The Sky (The Empire Novels)

The above three novels can be skipped without any loss of continuity. They don't have any direct reference to any characters or storyline of the preceding or following novels.

FOUNDATION
-----------
* Prelude to Foundation
* Forward the Foundation
* Foundation
* Foundation & Empire

Second Foundation
-----------------
* Foundation's Edge
* Foundation & Earth

Post foundation
----------------
*foundation's fear
*foundation and chaos
*foundation's triumph

Posted by vishal on Monday April 26, 2004 at 10:09 AM

Hi, I'm new here. I just stumbled upon this site looking for information on the Foundation movie and have found it. To introduce myself, my name is Josh. I am thirteen years old and live in Georgia, U.S.A. But, to get to my comment:

Yes, I have to agree. I started reading the Foudnation Series a few months back and have enjoyed them alot.

To quote Ringworld: I mean it would expose a whole new generation to some classic sci fi from the golden age

Definitly! All the Sci-Fi's today are only filled with either violence/sex/lame rip-offs or a combination of the three. The Foundation Series has got to be the best Sci-Fi books of all time, no contest. Maybe if some of the other kids took the time to read they wouldn't be doing so bad in school. (*cough* throughs test marked F in trash *cough*)

Posted by Button on Thursday December 16, 2004 at 3:34 PM

I hate to be a pessimist, especially about books I love so much, but if the same moron who adapted I, Robot for the silver screen is in charge of butchering the Foundation series, then there truely is NO justice in the world.

Let's see what he did with I, Robot: Two characters in the movie had the same name as two of the characters in the book. Wow! There **ALSO** was a single scene reminiscent of Chapter 6. That's good. So, let's check out scores: 2 names were right, 1 scene might remind someone of one of the 9 chapters.

Does that meet anyone's reasonable definition of the words "Adaptation"?

Can you imagine what he'll do to the Foundation series? There will be a character called Salvor Hardin. There will be a character called Hari Seldon. And there will be a single scene with a Empirical emissary that might remind someone of a scene later in the book. Otherwise, it is a total adventure/love story about Salvor Hardin and his attempt to thwart the evil galactic plans of Darth Moron, an emissary of the Empire and competitor for his love interest, the grand-daughter of the late Hari Seldon.

God save us from this idiot.

- Bo Zimmerman
Foundation fan of the first order. Hell, I even liked books 3-6 and the preludes.

Posted by Bo Zimmerman on Saturday January 08, 2005 at 3:22 PM

Hi, I just stumbled in on this looking aroun @ Asimov stuff, and thought I might throw in my two cents. I'm a freshman at Western Mchigan University, and just finished the original foundation trilogy and the Prelude to the Foundation. All of which -and I'm sure this is shocking news to all- I enjoyed very much. Jeez, at most of the climaxes (or big twists, whatever you want to call them)I'd jump up and down like a little kid! great books.

..anyway, I'm impressed that they are going to try to make a foundation movie. Not that its a bad idea at all, I'm just impressed that they are giong to try it in practice. And on the subject of Asimov-based movies, Bicentennial Man wasn't bad. I don't know if he wrote a book of that title, but the movie definitely has asimov all over it. the basic premise is from a short story whose name I cant recall but I think is in "Martian tales and other short stories" or something like that. A guy who gets a robot, starts getting upgrades for it and makes it closer and closer to a human. The movie goes in a whole different direction (the robot doesn't want to kill the owner), but it was a really good story made using asimov's premise.

The foundation movie could be really good, and I'll certainly be looking out for it.

By the way, if anyone happens to be familiar with Clive Cussler's novels, a movie of 'Saharah' is coming out summer 2005. Cussler's stuff has nothing to do with Asimov or really with science fiction at all. It's a little like james bond (not the movies, the books), but more spontaneous and with a lot of history tied into it. Sahara is probably one of the best books I've ever read, though not quite as mind-bending as the foundation series. Although the movie preview made me feel really suspicious, I will probably be like the 3rd person in line to see it. But if you run out of asimov stuff to read, Cussler is another guy who knows how to do it right.

blah. Oh, and I thought I Robot was not bad, as movies go. Asimov's stuff isn't really that cinematic, but I guess they had to call it an adaptation to use the title and have some of asimov's stuff in it. It was pretty good as its own story.

But Zimmerman, man you said it- if the foundation trilogy gets gutted by the "magic of moviemaking", there truly is no justice in the world.

jeez, i can't even distinguish between writing a %$&#ing essay and a simple post anymore..(sob, sniff)

Posted by keilwerthCat on Thursday January 27, 2005 at 6:55 AM

Hi guys my name is Collin and I'm a high school student. I've just finished the foundation trilogy and am now reading the prelude to the foundation. I'm a huge fan of these novels, and they are certainly scifi at it's best. I am also a film maker and studying film...and I am about as curious as i am scared to see how anyone would approach turning the foundation into a film. It's more likely that they will massacre the story but there is always a possibility it could be excellent....the idea itself has major potential. If the film maker were to approach the story with an open mind and not try to change the story more than seems neccesary i think it could work out....If they try to fit to much in one film though...it will not be good.

Posted by collin cusack on Sunday January 30, 2005 at 1:18 PM

Anytime Hollywood gets ahold of a sci-fi script, there is a potential for huge, point missing, what in the hell were they thinking about screw-ups to occur. Case in point, for those that have actually read the book, Starship Troopers (bonus points for those who remember the seriously OLD board game), you'd have to agree that the version released in the theaters has very little to do with the book. Of course, that could also be because the Hollwood assclowns who rewrote it, didn't particular care for the author's viewpoints on what it means to be a citizen, and how and why only citizens should be allowed to vote. If you only saw the movie, you of course, didn't get that...only that A Bugs were bad B Apparenlty some fascist global government was in charge and C that if you joined the military for said fascist government, you got to shower with really hot chicks! (ok, maybe the last part was a Good point of the flick)
Given that, it's not going to be a surprise to me if this movie makes catwoman look like oscar material but I'll try and remain 'guardedly optimisitic'. On a humorous side note, why not vote to make Colin Farrell 'the mule'...

Doug

Posted by Doug on Monday January 31, 2005 at 10:30 AM

The foundation trilogy is possible the best damn series of books I have ever had the pleasure to read. I don�t know exactly how I feel about having the trilogy cut into two movies. Consider Lord of the Rings, which was also being considered for just two movies. I can however see how they would want to cut out the chunk of Foundation and Empire which does not directly relate to the mule, as far as the whole Riose, Devers situation is concerned. But that then cuts out a major portion of the movie. Consider also The Matrix. Each of these three movies is uniquely different from the other two without exactly standing alone. I think the Foundation trilogy on the screen could be the next Star Wars of our generation. But it would need to have the best directors to support what the book really IS. Peter Jackson who did LOTR for example could be considered, but I did not like the fact that he made some major changes to the book to make it fit on screen. Whatever happens happens. But I will be among the first in line to see Foundation no matter who made it.

P.S. On a personal note, I always imagined the mule looking somewhat like sideshow bob from the Simpson�s

Posted by IzzI on Wednesday March 01, 2006 at 6:31 PM

-IzzI-----The entire foundation series from the prelude to earth could also make an excellent mini series. BattleStar Galactaca would be my prime example. It would probably not make anywhere near as much money as it would on the big screen, but I'll be damned to hell if they can screw that up.... Just some food for thought.----------

ah, the problem with this, have you actually SEEN anything Sci-Fi has put out? it's "effects" driven. And all the effects look "computery." The Foundation series were story driven to a point. Remember when he wrote the first book, he had no intention of writing all 7 foundation books nor weaving the thread among most all of his books! i think people need to get a handle on asimov in the movies first.

The foundation series could be the next... or better than the next Star-Wars. For better or worse, the stories were written in a haphazard fashion that accentuate the random order of the "Psychohistory science." Think of all the characters you meet in this series. So many, but they all have a single part to play in a huge epic. Similar to Lord of the Rings? It even has a historical bent; so many people put a spin on the future events... you even have the mule who throws everything out of whack... then it's guided back into order by an outside paternal order.

I don't want to see a huge movie made of Foundation and/or the first 2 or 3 books... then no one finishes it with all 7 books in line... My preference would be to have 7 movies for the 7 books... but that's just a traditional hope.

It would even lend itself to the star wars type production... do foundation first, then do the prequels of Prelude & Forward.

But i still believe a dedicated crew should explore the other single stories of Asimov first... they eventually integrate into the foundation series in SOME fashion... He even alludes to Nemesis, The Gods Themselves & The End of Eternity. Why not first exploring those three... that way the producers LEARN more about asimov... and even if they suck, they can still be referenced in asmovian fashion in the story line as myth...

it would only be fitting... maybe someone could convince peter jackson to take it on?

please don't let sci fi get hold of asimov... they'll ruin it.
i'd rather read it.

Posted by goode design on Monday March 20, 2006 at 8:21 AM

ok: another thought for food. (i'm hungry!) there are a couple of parts that could be woven or recut differently... i.e. the part where seldon is on trantor seeing off the final foundation encyclopedist to terminius could be the ending scene of fwd foundation and then also the first scene of the foundation.

i guess i need to read some of the other novels written by other authors... i've heard they suck. i've often thought that someone should undertake writings of the expansion from earth/spacer worlds to the empire... and then the Gaia series... expanding beyond the foundation...

One thing you could say about asimov... he certainly left a lot of elipsis in his writing... nice places to fill in.

speaking of... i'm trying for an amateur writing of the expansion to empire myself... http://www.expansionempire.blogspot.com

Posted by goode design on Monday March 20, 2006 at 9:25 AM

I think the Foundation, Empire, and Robot series (they really ARE part of the same story) would be better done as a television space opera (you know, like STAR TREK). There is certainly enough material to last for years and you could start with Foundation and then spin it off into the other segments (like STARGATE SG-1 and STARGATE ATLANTIS now dominate the SciFi channel). You could still do movies to start off the series, but there is just too much material to try and condense it all into a single movie.

Posted by James Gronski on Saturday June 03, 2006 at 9:50 PM

Hello everyone, I also am new. I stumbled upon this site because I saw a news blurb that Hugh Jackman was expected to be seen in The Foundation Movie. My jaw dropped because I knew nothing about this project. I have read many of Asimove's books including the Foundation Series several times and was initially very excited to here that a movie was being made of this great set of books.

That said I agree with most of you that I'm very pessimistic about how good this film will be. I was dissappointed by the Bicentennial Man one of my Asimov favorites and I refused to see I Robot just based on the Previews (total misses the spirit of the collection of short stories). If it truly is the person that did the I Robot script that is working on this script then I'm pretty depressed about what is likely to come out.

Regarding Izzi's thought about the SciFi chanel doing a mini series - I think it is a good one. I disagree with Goggle Design - I saw the Dune Series that they put together and thought it was far superior than the ridiculous movie that was put out many years ago. Seems to me that a mini series is the perfect format and the SciFi channel audience is the right one. Why the hell have an entire channel dedicated to SciFi if it doesn't put out some work of the masters like Asimov?

I have to spend a line or two defending Peter Jackson. I have read the LOTR series many times. I thought it was courages to the extreme on New Line's part to go for 3 movies - a move it gone wrong could of wrecked the company. Even with 3 movies going into 3 hours each, there had to be painful cuts made to the storyline. Jackson and his team did an inspired job with the movie script with many wonderful LOTR lines taken directly from the book and put in the mouths of different characters. (Example the opening lines in the prelude of Fellowship of the Rings spoken by Galadrial where originally spoken by Treebeard in Two Towers yet they worked perfectly!) They deserved all the awards and money they earned. We were treated to a great piece of film art built on a great set of stories. It is rare when it happens!

Sorry for the long tirade I appreciate your discussion group.

Posted by brett goshert on Friday June 09, 2006 at 11:34 AM

I just stumbled across this site, and I was surprised that these movies were still in the works. I had heard a rumor of a Foundation movie trilogy about ten years ago, but I haven't heard anything else since, so I just assumed it had been cancelled.

I'm a huge Asimov fan. I've read all of his major books, and I'm thrilled when I find one of his lesser-known out-of-print books at a used bookstore. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the best storytellers of all time. Unfortunately, though, a great book doesn't guarantee a great movie. If the Foundation movies are made well, I'm sure that they will be box-office successes on the same level as the Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Matrix films. I think what will really make or break the movies will be how they're adapted to the screen.

The Foundation series covers about 600 years, and deals with dozens of major characters during this time frame. The Foundation books are also set against the backdrop of the larger Future History storyline which spans thousands of years of human (and robot) evolution. In order to convert this story into a couple of two-to-three hour movies would be a terrible oversimplification. This is what happened to I, Robot. The book covered about 100 years of robot evolution, and had to be drastically rewritten to make a movie that flows properly.

I have mixed feelings about the movie adaptation of I, Robot. If you look at it as just a movie, then it's a decent sci-fi action movie. But when you consider it as an adaptation of a book by the Grand Master of Science Fiction, then it's disappointing that more effort wasn't put into the storyline. This movie simply became "just another Will Smith sci-fi movie" when it had the potential to be much more. I hate to say it, but that's the direction I see the Foundation movies headed in.

I agree with the idea that Asimov's books would be best suited for a mini-series. There would definitely be enough material to keep the series going for quite some time. When I think along this line for too long, I get uncomfortable again. I can easily imagine Asimov's storyline turning into the next super-franchise like Star Trek. I would hate to see Asimov's work turned into a played-out cliché just as much as I would hate to see it turned into an oversimplified one.

I saw a bumper sticker once that said "don't judge a book by its movie." I think that this is the best advice to give. No matter how good or bad the movie adaptation is, seeing the movies will never be as good as reading the books.

Posted by Tim on Friday August 11, 2006 at 9:10 AM

Hello!

I found this on Hollywood.com and it seems like they are planning to rape the books as well as they did with I, Robot:

"Based on the "Foundation" trilogy by Isaac Asimov, a parable to the rise and fall of the Roman Empire and the emergence of Christianity. Far into the future, Hari Seldon, pioneer of a new science called psycho-history, mathematically predicts the fall of Earth's empire throughout the galaxy, followed by thirty thousand years of chaos. Earth has become a giant computerized center that administrates the entire galaxy, but the distant colonies have deteriorated nearly to barbarism. Seldon plans for his brainchild, The Foundation, a reclusive body located on another planet, to emerge as the new civilization through the preservation of knowledge and order."

http://www.hollywood.com/movies/detail/id/370600

My bold.

Now, this really sucks. Look at it! Its a rape! Asimov would turn in his grave if he knew. One of the best theme in his story is thath Earth i a forgotten planet, a mysterius world.

Posted by Tobias Malm on Friday December 15, 2006 at 4:44 PM

Who am I kidding? I'm not going to bother watching the film....like Isaac Asimov decided after doing the novel treatment of the screenplay of the film 'Fantastic Voyage'(and fixing up some rather bad scientific and continuity errors), he wasn't going to except any offer from Hollywood to film any of his stories and novels..ever.

Let us respect the great man's will.....

I hate Hollywood!

Posted by John on Saturday August 04, 2007 at 2:37 PM

thecomicist--
i agree totally!
R Daneel would be a phenominal narrator. Just the thought makes me say, "Wow... i want to see that movie."

esecallum
That's exactly why I don't think the Sci Fi channel could/should do it. there'll be no Grandness about it... Instead, we'll have lots of sexual tension swamped into a 35 minute hour of commercials for ipods, TGI Friday's & the latest mirical drug. They'll be sure to have lots of special effects, lazer zappers & XP31 Space Modulators... later, the series will try to moralize me as to why i should love everyone or why we're all the same.

There should be a "non-synthesizered" soundtrack (i already have my own that i play when reading the books). There should be memorable actors who play memorable roles. I think Will Smith can do better than he was given credit for in I, Robot... I just think the movie was skewed far too much. If you were to watch it as if it were NOT based on an I A book, it was a good movie... but the title & tie in to Asimov's work made it very hard to please.

One good point: There's enough stories involved that it would likely be split into more than 7 movies... especially the initial 3 books.

As for the Dune reference, sorry. the new movie didn't do the books justice. At least the first one had Sting in it... Again, the new one looked a little too computer generated.

Posted by goode design on Friday August 24, 2007 at 1:25 AM

Regarding the possible future rendering of Asimov's Foundation Trilogy or Saga or series as a Hollywood movie, I have to agree with Tobias Malm's (December 2006) comments that, if the film makers decide to use Earth instead of Trantor as the administrative centre of the Galactic Empire, then many fans will be very disappointed because, as Tobias puts it, one of the best themes is that Earth is a forgotten planet and a mysterious world and not even mentioned in the original trilogy. Foundation is set in a fictitious segment of the Galaxy, likely many parsecs from Earth. This allowed Asimov to expand the Trilogy into a saga and although many fans of the original trilogy moan at Asimov's later efforts to pick up the thread of the two Foundations (one at each end of the Galaxy) the story is still brilliantly told, there are many new concepts, the characters are compelling and there is the prospect of the search for Earth by the characters Golan Trevize, a Terminus councilman and Janov Pelorat, a very polite historian and scholar who accompanies Trevize when he is sent in "exile". Furthermore, there is an exciting link to characters from other branches of Asimov's work, namely the mystery sf novels, The Caves of Steel through to The Robots of Dawn and the End of Eternity. If Trantor is therefore replaced by Earth in a possible Foundation movie, there won't be any logical openings for sequels as well as confusion in the actual novels' plots. I do hope they don't rape this epic story by catering for what they believe to be filmgoers-who-like-Earth-to-be-involved-somehow-cos-its-nice-and-warm-and-cosy-and-familiar. Strange and new terrains are what gives a new film uniqueness. Personally, yes, I will have to watch it if it ever gets produced, otherwise I will die of curiosity. Pray they give it the respect this amazing epic deserves.

Posted by Andy Moss on Thursday September 13, 2007 at 3:16 PM

If the good doctor were still living today there would be no "Foundation" movie happening at all...Asimov had no time for Hollywood butchering any of his novels...His one and only foray into cinema was his novelisation of the "Fantastic Voyage" screenplay in 1966...an involvement he had no real love for.....

The movie rendering of his book "I Robot" is nothing more than a travesty....and if the same screen writer for that is working on the new Foundation movie then Susan Calvin help us...

Posted by John on Saturday December 01, 2007 at 10:49 AM

The mere act of bringing Asimov's concept of psycho-history into the modern web-centric/video-centric culture via a mass-market delivery mechansim like motion pictures, if completed, will be a triumph in itself, regardless of how poorly the plot & character development are handled! That being said, I personally find it nauseating to forsee how easily a screenwriter's maladaptation of the Foundation series could mar the perspective that Asimov's own writing gives this long-running tale. Loss of both plot depth & story viability - not to mention the loss of "writer's intent" - are pretty much the norm here. I would think that true success in bringing such a complex storyline from life in word-and-thought to life in scene-and-sound can only be accomplished learning-curve style: by a whole series of failed attempts, and then ultimately only properly completed by someone who has a *LOVE* for the original written work. (Note that LOTR was left un-attempted for *decades* after the initial abysmal efforts at transliteration [for both Hobbit & LOTR proper] which disappointed many fans with simplistic animations and butchered & abbreviated storylines, and Peter Jackson was *well aware* of this fact.)

Perhaps this need for successive attempts (& failures) at transliteration is why so much time has elapsed between initial word of the movie's production and the current time where we still have no projected release date(s). While I wholeheartedly agree that Foundation (original trilogy, et al) has absolute potential to become a long-term, high-dollar (aka "blockbuster") revenue stream for movie executives, I must also agree with many of the other posts here that this can only become reality by a very "care-full" crafting of the screenplay adaptations - which is something that HollyWood is rarely known for, most especially in the genre of science fiction...

Would anyone care to wager as to what Hari Seldon's own theories might predict for the final outcome here?

Posted by Elrond74 on Monday December 24, 2007 at 3:47 AM

In response to 'Elrond74': Hari Seldon's theories would not be able to predict the final outcome here - the data set is too small.

I really can't see how this film is gonna stay true to the books while at the same time appealing to a large audience. There will have to be large space battles otherwise they wouldn't make it, but there aren't any big space battles in the books, its always somewhere else while a battle is going on. So perhaps there will be the Return of the Jedi type thing going on.
I'd be interested to see how they portray the Mule. And also it'll be interesting to see how they do the emotional reading of the Second Foundationers.
I hope this film actually happens and does well. I'd really like them to do the later books too, as I think seeing the Farstar on the big screen would be great.

Posted by Bobalob on Sunday February 10, 2008 at 12:36 AM

The heart of the whole Foundation story is the Mule. He's the key. He's the great tragic figure. Everything else in the original novels revolves around his story, both in the set-up and in the consequences of his failure. It's a person who rebels against fate, who stands up to the system, and who almost brings it down...except love gets a bit in the way. As long as you have someone really great playing him, then you have the basis for a good movie. Don't get distracted by the other story lines. There are great possible visuals for his story, that convey strong emotions, just what you want in a movie.

Posted by Drew on Wednesday March 05, 2008 at 6:07 PM

The foundation has to be made into a movie .
a century from now ,i doubt if anybody would bother chasing volume after volume of unceasingly expanding storylines & ideas

If The Foundation is to ever survive the geometric decline of our attention spans, it has to make the transition from medium to medium

Infact the precedence that the series gives to the progression of the story than the resolution is what would make it a great movie adaptation

Somebody could just take a few story lines and weave them into a great trilogy

the first movie should cover the creation of the foundation and proceed straight through to the creation of the second Empire

The second one could be the story of the Mule and the third one , The Prelude

ofcourse, it would do better as a Game anyday ( part strategy , part action ). The series would immediately reach several millions in two or three weeks . thats infusion of knowledge at hyperspace speeds folks

Posted by arun on Friday June 13, 2008 at 4:28 PM