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	<title>Comments on: MIND MELD: The Books We Didn&#8217;t Love</title>
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	<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/</link>
	<description>A science fiction blog featuring science fiction book reviews and with frequent ramblings on fantasy, computers and the web.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 18:39:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The Demonhunter</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131845</link>
		<dc:creator>The Demonhunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are several classics that I can think of. I have read GRRM and the diminishing returns have astounded me. Feast and Dance were terrible.

I slogged through half of Stranger before putting it to rest.

Robert Jordan left me absolutely cold. I couldn&#039;t get beyond 100 pages.

Regarding LOTR I enjoyed the movies more than the books though I must say that the Hobbit was a pleasant surprise.

I expected to enjoy The Graveyard book by Gaiman but it turned out to be a stone cold dud. Ditto with the sandman series by Richard Kadrey.

All in all I have mostly stopped reading epic fantasy or any series that goes beyond a trilogy. I think three books ought to be enough to tell a good story.

I think reading at whim is the best thing to do. The moment I feel as if I am not enjoying a book I put it away and start something else without the slightest hesitation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are several classics that I can think of. I have read GRRM and the diminishing returns have astounded me. Feast and Dance were terrible.</p>
<p>I slogged through half of Stranger before putting it to rest.</p>
<p>Robert Jordan left me absolutely cold. I couldn&#8217;t get beyond 100 pages.</p>
<p>Regarding LOTR I enjoyed the movies more than the books though I must say that the Hobbit was a pleasant surprise.</p>
<p>I expected to enjoy The Graveyard book by Gaiman but it turned out to be a stone cold dud. Ditto with the sandman series by Richard Kadrey.</p>
<p>All in all I have mostly stopped reading epic fantasy or any series that goes beyond a trilogy. I think three books ought to be enough to tell a good story.</p>
<p>I think reading at whim is the best thing to do. The moment I feel as if I am not enjoying a book I put it away and start something else without the slightest hesitation.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl V.</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131812</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael, I don&#039;t see where anyone in this thread took offense at anyone who had an &quot;opinion&quot;.  We all acknowledge readily that everyone has different tastes and that it is perfectly fine to like what one likes and to voice that opinion.  If anyone took offense at all to this Mind Meld it was where the topics strayed from what a person didn&#039;t &quot;like&quot; to making authoritative  statements of certain books being unworthy, bad, etc rather than voicing them as opinions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I don&#8217;t see where anyone in this thread took offense at anyone who had an &#8220;opinion&#8221;.  We all acknowledge readily that everyone has different tastes and that it is perfectly fine to like what one likes and to voice that opinion.  If anyone took offense at all to this Mind Meld it was where the topics strayed from what a person didn&#8217;t &#8220;like&#8221; to making authoritative  statements of certain books being unworthy, bad, etc rather than voicing them as opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael.</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131809</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 08:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the interesting read. I&#039;m glad I&#039;m not the only one to dislike some of the &quot;classics&quot;. To all those who take offense, it makes no sense! It&#039;s not like your hair style is being insulted, and surely your liking of these books is not so part of your identity as to be considered similar. A person&#039;s opinion on a book is just fine. 

As for the books: 

Let&#039;s see, I didn&#039;t think much of &quot;Stranger in a Strange Land&quot; when I read it, I didn&#039;t like &quot;Dune&quot; either for that matter (shock horror!). I read the short story &quot;Lobsters&quot; before I read &quot;Accelerando&quot; and I found the short story really gripping. I loved it. But thought, as the book continued, that it just got worse. 

I liked &quot;Lord of the Rings&quot;, but I doubt I&#039;ll ever read it in full again. Rather just skipping all the boring bits and reading the exciting books. (I&#039;ve never bothered to see the movies, I don&#039;t think they&#039;ll do much for me.)

I&#039;m sad that I&#039;ve not read many of the other books mentioned. I need to read more, take me to a library.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the interesting read. I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m not the only one to dislike some of the &#8220;classics&#8221;. To all those who take offense, it makes no sense! It&#8217;s not like your hair style is being insulted, and surely your liking of these books is not so part of your identity as to be considered similar. A person&#8217;s opinion on a book is just fine. </p>
<p>As for the books: </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see, I didn&#8217;t think much of &#8220;Stranger in a Strange Land&#8221; when I read it, I didn&#8217;t like &#8220;Dune&#8221; either for that matter (shock horror!). I read the short story &#8220;Lobsters&#8221; before I read &#8220;Accelerando&#8221; and I found the short story really gripping. I loved it. But thought, as the book continued, that it just got worse. </p>
<p>I liked &#8220;Lord of the Rings&#8221;, but I doubt I&#8217;ll ever read it in full again. Rather just skipping all the boring bits and reading the exciting books. (I&#8217;ve never bothered to see the movies, I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;ll do much for me.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sad that I&#8217;ve not read many of the other books mentioned. I need to read more, take me to a library.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl V.</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131801</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 00:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with most of that.  I enjoyed Jo Walton&#039;s revisiting of the Hugo Awards (posted on Tor dot com) and her opinions about what perhaps should have won, or if the win was a good one, based on looking back through the lens of time.  It is still just opinion but makes for interesting reading. 

One of the things I find interesting, especially when I read these similar posts over on Ian Sales&#039; site, is that works like Asimov&#039;s Foundation series continue to impress new readers today.  Every year I find people reading Asimov for the first time and some are disappointed but I find many that feel that spark in the work, issues of the era aside, that turned readers on back when they were originally published.  

I think the biggest problem I end up having with articles like this is that it is easy for the writer(s) to go from &quot;what I didn&#039;t like&quot; and why, to &quot;this novel sucks&quot; which is given as a more blanket statement presented with the kind of language as if the person&#039;s opinion will brook no arguments to the contrary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of that.  I enjoyed Jo Walton&#8217;s revisiting of the Hugo Awards (posted on Tor dot com) and her opinions about what perhaps should have won, or if the win was a good one, based on looking back through the lens of time.  It is still just opinion but makes for interesting reading. </p>
<p>One of the things I find interesting, especially when I read these similar posts over on Ian Sales&#8217; site, is that works like Asimov&#8217;s Foundation series continue to impress new readers today.  Every year I find people reading Asimov for the first time and some are disappointed but I find many that feel that spark in the work, issues of the era aside, that turned readers on back when they were originally published.  </p>
<p>I think the biggest problem I end up having with articles like this is that it is easy for the writer(s) to go from &#8220;what I didn&#8217;t like&#8221; and why, to &#8220;this novel sucks&#8221; which is given as a more blanket statement presented with the kind of language as if the person&#8217;s opinion will brook no arguments to the contrary.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131800</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131800</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*true for me* would solve the interpretational issue for you, but really such arguments lack a formal structure and agreed metrics to make any kind of objective assessment. However by the metrics tendered by those above, then what I have said is accurate, even *true*. Misogynistic attitudes abound in old SF. Awards are relative to their day - &quot;Foundation&quot; was fresh and new in the 1940s, but would seem rather hackneyed now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*true for me* would solve the interpretational issue for you, but really such arguments lack a formal structure and agreed metrics to make any kind of objective assessment. However by the metrics tendered by those above, then what I have said is accurate, even *true*. Misogynistic attitudes abound in old SF. Awards are relative to their day &#8211; &#8220;Foundation&#8221; was fresh and new in the 1940s, but would seem rather hackneyed now.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl V.</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131797</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 23:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, including Asimov all the comments are *opinion* Adam.  There is nothing in the post above, positive or negative, that is inherently &quot;true&quot;.  What is &quot;true&quot; for one reader is completely false for another, especially when none of the books referenced above are obscure titles but instead are best-selling, much-praised works.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, including Asimov all the comments are *opinion* Adam.  There is nothing in the post above, positive or negative, that is inherently &#8220;true&#8221;.  What is &#8220;true&#8221; for one reader is completely false for another, especially when none of the books referenced above are obscure titles but instead are best-selling, much-praised works.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131796</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 21:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well that adds to my ever growing list of &quot;don&#039;t bother reading&quot;... Being a fan of Ideas SF and having read the &quot;classics&quot; generally I learned to screen out the hokey politics, otiose moralising and ridiculous racism. What&#039;s unforgivable, for me, is making the future&#039;s changes into *just* props for the same old stories. An SF story, to be SF, has be in a world that is different because of all the little changes that everyone in it takes for granted and the author isn&#039;t trying to convince you that&#039;s how it should be... which is why I found just about everything by Heinlein after 1960 unreadable, again. Yes, I read them, but I didn&#039;t want to read them again. Unlike his older stories. To pin-point why I realised the stories were no longer stories, but tracts... &quot;the way the world should be, according to RAH.&quot;

I don&#039;t know about most of the books discussed above (aside from Asimov - all the comments are true, but I don&#039;t care) and I have to say I haven&#039;t read them. Even &quot;Dhalgren&quot; but only because I can&#039;t find a copy locally when I have the urge to read Delaney.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that adds to my ever growing list of &#8220;don&#8217;t bother reading&#8221;&#8230; Being a fan of Ideas SF and having read the &#8220;classics&#8221; generally I learned to screen out the hokey politics, otiose moralising and ridiculous racism. What&#8217;s unforgivable, for me, is making the future&#8217;s changes into *just* props for the same old stories. An SF story, to be SF, has be in a world that is different because of all the little changes that everyone in it takes for granted and the author isn&#8217;t trying to convince you that&#8217;s how it should be&#8230; which is why I found just about everything by Heinlein after 1960 unreadable, again. Yes, I read them, but I didn&#8217;t want to read them again. Unlike his older stories. To pin-point why I realised the stories were no longer stories, but tracts&#8230; &#8220;the way the world should be, according to RAH.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about most of the books discussed above (aside from Asimov &#8211; all the comments are true, but I don&#8217;t care) and I have to say I haven&#8217;t read them. Even &#8220;Dhalgren&#8221; but only because I can&#8217;t find a copy locally when I have the urge to read Delaney.</p>
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		<title>By: Redhead</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131767</link>
		<dc:creator>Redhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 15:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Definitely one of the more interesting and polarizing Mind Meld posts in a while. Good job Paul!

My first response to the posts above were &quot;quit picking on some of my favorite books, you&#039;re just not giving it a chance!&quot;. I read further, and my response was &quot;hell yeah that book sucked, I can&#039;t believe anyone liked that piece of garbage!&quot;. 

Of the books I&#039;ve read that the authors above mentioned, I&#039;m split about 50/50 on loved it/can&#039;t understand why anyone enjoys it. 

we&#039;re not all going to love the same stuff, and it&#039;s interesting to see what everyone enjoys and doesn&#039;t. For the record, I&#039;m an utter Heinlein fangirl. I&#039;ve read Stranger in a Strange Land twice, and started it again probably half a dozen more times. I read the first half, love it. . . get to the second half and usually put it down.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely one of the more interesting and polarizing Mind Meld posts in a while. Good job Paul!</p>
<p>My first response to the posts above were &#8220;quit picking on some of my favorite books, you&#8217;re just not giving it a chance!&#8221;. I read further, and my response was &#8220;hell yeah that book sucked, I can&#8217;t believe anyone liked that piece of garbage!&#8221;. </p>
<p>Of the books I&#8217;ve read that the authors above mentioned, I&#8217;m split about 50/50 on loved it/can&#8217;t understand why anyone enjoys it. </p>
<p>we&#8217;re not all going to love the same stuff, and it&#8217;s interesting to see what everyone enjoys and doesn&#8217;t. For the record, I&#8217;m an utter Heinlein fangirl. I&#8217;ve read Stranger in a Strange Land twice, and started it again probably half a dozen more times. I read the first half, love it. . . get to the second half and usually put it down.</p>
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		<title>By: G4P</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131759</link>
		<dc:creator>G4P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 06:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As someone new to sfsignal/Mind Meld, I have a perspective that the author(s) might find useful.  At a glance I thought the pictured books were the ones being panned.  That is not a good way to promote the books of the authors who wrote for this piece.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone new to sfsignal/Mind Meld, I have a perspective that the author(s) might find useful.  At a glance I thought the pictured books were the ones being panned.  That is not a good way to promote the books of the authors who wrote for this piece.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Connelly</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131754</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Connelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sometimes I get the impression that I&#039;m the only person who didn&#039;t think The Fortunate Fall was a masterpiece. Maybe if I had persevered all the way through that would be different, but I couldn&#039;t make it out of the first quarter or so.

Stranger in a Strange Land is a prize-winning dud, like most talky books where the author has one or more stand-ins arguing for his or her suspect opinions against opposition that can barely fog the mirror.

Similarly, books that are schematic diagrams of a clod getting a well-deserved comeuppance/painful education are a major drag. The Malacia Tapestry and The Magus being two sad examples.

Character issues would probably be the biggest reason I stop reading or barely struggle through many books. A cast of just plain unsympathetic and grating characters (especially the ones that you can tell the author thinks are really hip) will make me set a book aside and never pick it up again. With Ian McDonald, if I&#039;m lucky I can find one or even two characters I will keep reading to find out more about. In some cases, like Necroville/The Terminal Cafe, I can&#039;t even find one and give up quickly. Characters that are so overwrought and melodramatic that they seem like cartoons can spoil things, as can characters that are flat as cardboard. Even worse, the characters can veer from flat to overwrought and back (I&#039;m thinking of The High House as an example).

I&#039;m a fan of Matthew Woodring Stover&#039;s Caine books, in spite of the extreme violence they contain (usually involving warriors), but for the most part repetitive scenes of sadistic violence against the helpless (animals, children, prisoners/captives, the physically weak or old or disabled) spoil a book for me (just thinking now of The Captain&#039;s Witch, a recent read).

All of the above books mentioned have been praised or named as favorites by other readers, so take this all with a grain of salt.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes I get the impression that I&#8217;m the only person who didn&#8217;t think The Fortunate Fall was a masterpiece. Maybe if I had persevered all the way through that would be different, but I couldn&#8217;t make it out of the first quarter or so.</p>
<p>Stranger in a Strange Land is a prize-winning dud, like most talky books where the author has one or more stand-ins arguing for his or her suspect opinions against opposition that can barely fog the mirror.</p>
<p>Similarly, books that are schematic diagrams of a clod getting a well-deserved comeuppance/painful education are a major drag. The Malacia Tapestry and The Magus being two sad examples.</p>
<p>Character issues would probably be the biggest reason I stop reading or barely struggle through many books. A cast of just plain unsympathetic and grating characters (especially the ones that you can tell the author thinks are really hip) will make me set a book aside and never pick it up again. With Ian McDonald, if I&#8217;m lucky I can find one or even two characters I will keep reading to find out more about. In some cases, like Necroville/The Terminal Cafe, I can&#8217;t even find one and give up quickly. Characters that are so overwrought and melodramatic that they seem like cartoons can spoil things, as can characters that are flat as cardboard. Even worse, the characters can veer from flat to overwrought and back (I&#8217;m thinking of The High House as an example).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a fan of Matthew Woodring Stover&#8217;s Caine books, in spite of the extreme violence they contain (usually involving warriors), but for the most part repetitive scenes of sadistic violence against the helpless (animals, children, prisoners/captives, the physically weak or old or disabled) spoil a book for me (just thinking now of The Captain&#8217;s Witch, a recent read).</p>
<p>All of the above books mentioned have been praised or named as favorites by other readers, so take this all with a grain of salt.</p>
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		<title>By: John H. Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131752</link>
		<dc:creator>John H. Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 23:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DO NOT APOLOGIZE. I think this was a Mind Meld well worth reading.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DO NOT APOLOGIZE. I think this was a Mind Meld well worth reading.</p>
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		<title>By: John H. Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131751</link>
		<dc:creator>John H. Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 23:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought this Mind Meld was fascinating. I like to hear what other readers, especially thoughtful ones, think of books that did not work for them. We need to encourage variety and not get miffed when someone says that Book X was not their thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought this Mind Meld was fascinating. I like to hear what other readers, especially thoughtful ones, think of books that did not work for them. We need to encourage variety and not get miffed when someone says that Book X was not their thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Jernigan</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131750</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachary Jernigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 22:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this was a great topic, Paul. Let people be offended: it&#039;s ridiculous to be upset by someone else&#039;s opinion of a piece of art, anyway.

I loved reading this. Kudos on it!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this was a great topic, Paul. Let people be offended: it&#8217;s ridiculous to be upset by someone else&#8217;s opinion of a piece of art, anyway.</p>
<p>I loved reading this. Kudos on it!</p>
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		<title>By: Spomenka</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131749</link>
		<dc:creator>Spomenka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 21:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131749</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You could try to take the blame for the participants not following the rule of pre-pending a YMMV statement, but I think the only sane way to read any review is to presume, &quot;This is [X]&#039;s take.  I&#039;m still allowed to like my troublesome things.&quot;  

That said, I&#039;d actually like a spin on this one:  What things have these (or other authors) read that they wish they hadn&#039;t.  The disturbing things that haunt them.  (_Dr. Rat_, anyone?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could try to take the blame for the participants not following the rule of pre-pending a YMMV statement, but I think the only sane way to read any review is to presume, &#8220;This is [X]&#8216;s take.  I&#8217;m still allowed to like my troublesome things.&#8221;  </p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;d actually like a spin on this one:  What things have these (or other authors) read that they wish they hadn&#8217;t.  The disturbing things that haunt them.  (_Dr. Rat_, anyone?)</p>
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		<title>By: Carl V.</title>
		<link>http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2013/01/mind-meld-the-books-we-didnt-love/#comment-131747</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfsignal.com/?p=68922#comment-131747</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll throw my voice in here too. Very good topic.  While I&#039;m thrilled that some of the reviewers aren&#039;t the ones picking the books that make it to the bookstore shelves it is entertaining to read their opinions and to agree and disagree accordingly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll throw my voice in here too. Very good topic.  While I&#8217;m thrilled that some of the reviewers aren&#8217;t the ones picking the books that make it to the bookstore shelves it is entertaining to read their opinions and to agree and disagree accordingly.</p>
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